Western Digital (WD) Red *do* have TLER!

Update2! Check out the comments, it shows clearly that the drive has TLER. I’m pretty frustrated that WD Support don’t really know their own product!
I’ll let them know about this post and see if they are willing to respond.

Update! I have been told that these drives DO have TLER: http://www.pcper.com/news/Storage/WD-Red-drives-do-support-TLER, but there are other threads stating that is has TLER-similar functions.

The TLER is present, but you probably should run the drives in RAID 6 because of the low URE rating of 10^14!

————-

After the grand launch of Western Digital Red drives I got excited!
At last a TLER (similar to ERC or CCTL) affordable drive, they have commercials stating that this is for RAID-systems.
The excitement went sour after contacting WD support.

We sincerely apologize for the inconveniences, we will be more than glad to assist you with this issue, only the WD RE drives have the TLER feature in order to avoid any dropouts from the raid. If you want to use a WD Red drive on a RAID environment, it will work however, this drive does not have the TLER feature.

In my main server I have an Adaptec 3805 hardware RAID-controller.
Earlier I used 8xWD Green 1 TB drives with RAID 6 on it. They worked ok, very few dropout.
For 6 months ago I bought 8xWD Green 2 TB drives (WD20EARX) and now the “Abort”-count is sky-high

Adaptec support replied to me that the WD Green drives does not have TLER and are the worst kind to put into a RAID.

I replied to WD support asking why the WD Red drives are so RAID-friendly, since they do not have TLER.

We apologize for the inconveniences. The WD Red and the WD Green work the same in a RAID environment because they do not have the TLER feature. However, the WD Red have been tested in the following NAS systems:
WD Red Compatibility
WD Support ref: ref:_00DU0Jpn7._500U04E2hu:ref

Most disturbing reply is that WD Red and WD Green work the same in RAID, they couldn’t state any difference.

0 Replies to “Western Digital (WD) Red *do* have TLER!”

  1. The Red drives do support tler :

    ]# smartctl -l scterc,70,70 /dev/sda
    smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-2.6.32-279.el6.x86_64] (local build)
    Copyright © 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

    SCT Error Recovery Control set to:
    Read: 70 (7.0 seconds)
    Write: 70 (7.0 seconds)

    1. Great news!
      I’ve been waiting for the first SmartToolsCtrl print 🙂

      Since the WD Support don’t know anything about their hardware, here are some questions:
      * Is it persistent?
      * Can you print a S.M.A.R.T list of available commands/setup of your drive?

  2. It’s pesistent, after a reboot :

    ]# smartctl -l scterc /dev/sda
    smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-2.6.32-279.2.1.el6.x86_64] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

    SCT Error Recovery Control:
    Read: 70 (7.0 seconds)
    Write: 70 (7.0 seconds)

    Let me know what extra smartctl output you want to see ?
    smartctl -x :

    ]# smartctl -x /dev/sda
    smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-2.6.32-279.2.1.el6.x86_64] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

    === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
    Device Model: WDC WD30EFRX-68AX9N0
    Serial Number:
    LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 058af9080
    Firmware Version: 80.00A80
    User Capacity: 3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
    Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
    Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
    ATA Version is: 8
    ATA Standard is: ACS-2 (revision not indicated)
    Local Time is: Wed Aug 8 15:53:34 2012 CEST
    SMART support is: Available – device has SMART capability.
    SMART support is: Enabled

    === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
    SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

    General SMART Values:
    Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity
    was never started.
    Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
    Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
    without error or no self-test has ever
    been run.
    Total time to complete Offline
    data collection: (40680) seconds.
    Offline data collection
    capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
    Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
    Suspend Offline collection upon new
    command.
    Offline surface scan supported.
    Self-test supported.
    Conveyance Self-test supported.
    Selective Self-test supported.
    SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
    power-saving mode.
    Supports SMART auto save timer.
    Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
    General Purpose Logging supported.
    Short self-test routine
    recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
    Extended self-test routine
    recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes.
    Conveyance self-test routine
    recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes.
    SCT capabilities: (0x70bd) SCT Status supported.
    SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
    SCT Feature Control supported.
    SCT Data Table supported.

    SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
    Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
    ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAGS VALUE WORST THRESH FAIL RAW_VALUE
    1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate POSR-K 100 253 051 – 0
    3 Spin_Up_Time POS–K 100 253 021 – 0
    4 Start_Stop_Count -O–CK 100 100 000 – 3
    5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct PO–CK 200 200 140 – 0
    7 Seek_Error_Rate -OSR-K 100 253 000 – 0
    9 Power_On_Hours -O–CK 100 100 000 – 0
    10 Spin_Retry_Count -O–CK 100 253 000 – 0
    11 Calibration_Retry_Count -O–CK 100 253 000 – 0
    12 Power_Cycle_Count -O–CK 100 100 000 – 3
    192 Power-Off_Retract_Count -O–CK 200 200 000 – 2
    193 Load_Cycle_Count -O–CK 200 200 000 – 0
    194 Temperature_Celsius -O—K 118 114 000 – 32
    196 Reallocated_Event_Count -O–CK 200 200 000 – 0
    197 Current_Pending_Sector -O–CK 200 200 000 – 0
    198 Offline_Uncorrectable —-CK 100 253 000 – 0
    199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count -O–CK 200 200 000 – 0
    200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate —R– 100 253 000 – 0
    ||||||_ K auto-keep
    |||||__ C event count
    ||||___ R error rate
    |||____ S speed/performance
    ||_____ O updated online
    |______ P prefailure warning

    General Purpose Log Directory Version 1
    SMART Log Directory Version 1 [multi-sector log support]
    GP/S Log at address 0x00 has 1 sectors [Log Directory]
    SMART Log at address 0x01 has 1 sectors [Summary SMART error log]
    SMART Log at address 0x02 has 5 sectors [Comprehensive SMART error log]
    GP Log at address 0x03 has 6 sectors [Ext. Comprehensive SMART error log]
    SMART Log at address 0x06 has 1 sectors [SMART self-test log]
    GP Log at address 0x07 has 1 sectors [Extended self-test log]
    SMART Log at address 0x09 has 1 sectors [Selective self-test log]
    GP Log at address 0x10 has 1 sectors [NCQ Command Error log]
    GP Log at address 0x11 has 1 sectors [SATA Phy Event Counters]
    GP Log at address 0x21 has 1 sectors [Write stream error log]
    GP Log at address 0x22 has 1 sectors [Read stream error log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x80 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x81 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x82 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x83 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x84 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x85 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x86 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x87 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x88 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x89 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8a has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8b has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8c has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8d has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8e has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x8f has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x90 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x91 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x92 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x93 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x94 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x95 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x96 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x97 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x98 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x99 has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9a has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9b has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9c has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9d has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9e has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0x9f has 16 sectors [Host vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa0 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa1 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa2 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa3 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa4 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa5 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa6 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa7 has 16 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa8 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xa9 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xaa has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xab has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xac has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xad has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xae has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xaf has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb0 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb1 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb2 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb3 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb4 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb5 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb6 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xb7 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xbd has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xc0 has 1 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP Log at address 0xc1 has 93 sectors [Device vendor specific log]
    GP/S Log at address 0xe0 has 1 sectors [SCT Command/Status]
    GP/S Log at address 0xe1 has 1 sectors [SCT Data Transfer]

    SMART Extended Comprehensive Error Log Version: 1 (6 sectors)
    No Errors Logged

    SMART Extended Self-test Log Version: 1 (1 sectors)
    No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

    SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
    SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1 0 0 Not_testing
    2 0 0 Not_testing
    3 0 0 Not_testing
    4 0 0 Not_testing
    5 0 0 Not_testing
    Selective self-test flags (0x0):
    After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
    If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

    SCT Status Version: 3
    SCT Version (vendor specific): 258 (0x0102)
    SCT Support Level: 1
    Device State: Active (0)
    Current Temperature: 32 Celsius
    Power Cycle Min/Max Temperature: 30/32 Celsius
    Lifetime Min/Max Temperature: 23/36 Celsius
    Under/Over Temperature Limit Count: 0/0
    SCT Temperature History Version: 2
    Temperature Sampling Period: 1 minute
    Temperature Logging Interval: 1 minute
    Min/Max recommended Temperature: 0/60 Celsius
    Min/Max Temperature Limit: -41/85 Celsius
    Temperature History Size (Index): 478 (55)

    Index Estimated Time Temperature Celsius
    56 2012-08-08 07:56 ? –
    … ..(421 skipped). .. –
    0 2012-08-08 14:58 ? –
    1 2012-08-08 14:59 31 ************
    2 2012-08-08 15:00 31 ************
    3 2012-08-08 15:01 ? –
    4 2012-08-08 15:02 23 ****
    5 2012-08-08 15:03 24 *****
    6 2012-08-08 15:04 25 ******
    7 2012-08-08 15:05 26 *******
    8 2012-08-08 15:06 27 ********
    9 2012-08-08 15:07 27 ********
    10 2012-08-08 15:08 28 *********
    11 2012-08-08 15:09 29 **********
    12 2012-08-08 15:10 30 ***********
    13 2012-08-08 15:11 31 ************
    14 2012-08-08 15:12 31 ************
    15 2012-08-08 15:13 32 *************
    16 2012-08-08 15:14 32 *************
    17 2012-08-08 15:15 33 **************
    18 2012-08-08 15:16 34 ***************
    19 2012-08-08 15:17 34 ***************
    20 2012-08-08 15:18 35 ****************
    … ..( 7 skipped). .. ****************
    28 2012-08-08 15:26 35 ****************
    29 2012-08-08 15:27 36 *****************
    … ..( 14 skipped). .. *****************
    44 2012-08-08 15:42 36 *****************
    45 2012-08-08 15:43 ? –
    46 2012-08-08 15:44 30 ***********
    … ..( 3 skipped). .. ***********
    50 2012-08-08 15:48 30 ***********
    51 2012-08-08 15:49 31 ************
    52 2012-08-08 15:50 32 *************
    … ..( 2 skipped). .. *************
    55 2012-08-08 15:53 32 *************

    SCT Error Recovery Control:
    Read: 70 (7.0 seconds)
    Write: 70 (7.0 seconds)

    SATA Phy Event Counters (GP Log 0x11)
    ID Size Value Description
    0x0001 2 0 Command failed due to ICRC error
    0x0002 2 0 R_ERR response for data FIS
    0x0003 2 0 R_ERR response for device-to-host data FIS
    0x0004 2 0 R_ERR response for host-to-device data FIS
    0x0005 2 0 R_ERR response for non-data FIS
    0x0006 2 0 R_ERR response for device-to-host non-data FIS
    0x0007 2 0 R_ERR response for host-to-device non-data FIS
    0x0008 2 0 Device-to-host non-data FIS retries
    0x0009 2 20 Transition from drive PhyRdy to drive PhyNRdy
    0x000a 2 20 Device-to-host register FISes sent due to a COMRESET
    0x000b 2 0 CRC errors within host-to-device FIS
    0x000f 2 0 R_ERR response for host-to-device data FIS, CRC
    0x0012 2 0 R_ERR response for host-to-device non-data FIS, CRC
    0x8000 4 743 Vendor specific

    1. DDX, this is promising news! The drives maintain power through a reboot; I would not expect that to alter the setting. Can you please test for persistence through a complete hard power-down, power-up cycle?

  3. Is it possible through smartctl to disable this feature?

    How were you trying to disable it to check if it was persistent or not?

    1. Hi Paul

      I don’t have the drives yet (small stock in Norway).
      But I don’t see any use of that, by disabling TLER you got yourself any other drive.

      -Lars

    2. I have an adaptec 3805 and recently purchase 2 x WD1003fbyx to expand/rebuild an existing RAID5 array which has been running 2 x Samsung + 1 x Seagate drives without problems for about 2.5 years. When I rebuilt the array with the WD’s I continue to get drive failures (After about a 1/2 day) from the 3805 and one of the WD’s are dropped out of the RAID5 set! Note that the WD1003fbyx supports TLER so it’s not that.

      I reconfigured the 3805 for 1.50 Gb/s on the WD’s and its been stable for a week.

      The REALLY annoying part is that I bought the RED drives because I was having this exact same problem with a recent purchase of 2 x WD10EARS GREEN drives and thought it was related to TLER! I am going to try re-using the WD GREEN’s and see if they now work and are stable at 1.5 Gb/s ….

      I found the following http://community.wdc.com/t5/Other-Internal-Drives/WD2003FYYS-Drives-dropping-from-RAID-1/td-p/203458/page/2 discussion on the WDC site interesting an d useful….

      1. Hi Craig,

        Thank you for the heads up! I’m really annoyed myself regarding the vendors incompatibility.
        I never bought the REDs to replace my GREENs, to high costs with to much uncertainty.
        Clearly they have made hardware RAID a segment for enterprises only and priced them ridiculous high.

        My next project is to throw out the 3805-RAID, use some cheap no-name software controllers and attach SSD drives to it.
        Then using a software RAID (like ZFS) I get an acceptable performance, for home use.

        Tried it in small scale using a crappy JBOD HighPoint 4p adapter and 4x128gb SSD drives.
        It performed 4-5 times quicker WITH encryption on a i5 with comparison to the 3805 running on a Xeon dual.
        Later on I’ll put on the GREENs on a seperat ZFS-raid and they will work as expected (based on others experiences).

        That way you get the best of two worlds and hopefully other people could learn from my trial-and-error: Harware RAID cards is not worth the price!

        Cheerio,
        Lars Werner
        http://lars.werner.no

        1. This does not help your problem; I’m just providing a data point. I’ve had four 2TB red drives on a 3ware 9650 for a month now, with no problems.

          1. Glad to hear that!
            Seems like my hardware RAID vendor is the one to blame.
            Adaptec does not want hear anything about RED drives on the 3805, they replied that they did not support them.
            So my approach is to let the OS do the “hard work” from now on. I liked the ZFS-RAID on SSD 🙂

            -Lars

        2. Hi Lars,

          I’ve been using this controller for nearly 3 years with various drives, SSD and blue-ray players no problems at all until now!

          Having said this when I started reading about TLER and the “new and improved Enterprise drives” to me it looked like a cash-grab for the drive manufacturers (there is only 1 or 2 of them left) e.g. pull functionality that exists in older drives out of the newer models but keep prices consistent and re-package the same physical drive with the existing tech (TLER) but increase the price dramatically and call them ENTERPRISE READY! – do nothing make more money!

          I suspect the WD problems I’m having are just a compatibility issue and nothing to do with TLER will let you know how it goes…. Luckily I picked up the RED”s cheap.

          Re the software RAID and ZFS – I still prefer hardware raid for disk consistency checking and other nice features, also the H/W raid keeps my arrays operating system agnostic which is nice (vs. operating system raid). I’m sure this can be done with the S/W RAID controllers like highpoint though.

          Regards.

          Craig.

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